swap? rebuild?
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Author:  atomic froster [ August 09 2008, 10:39 PM ]
Post subject:  swap? rebuild?

hey all, brand new to the forums and cant stop reading.

so ive got a 92 mx3 v6 1.8ltr gs and it burns oil :( it smokes pretty bad sometimes. so ive got to do something, i understand any route im going to go isnt going to be cheap, but i cant decide if i should have it rebuit or swap in a new/bigger motor? i have been reading all the posts about the klze motor and called a shop here and they said they could get one and install it for about 3k. i really love the idea and i dont know of anyone on vancouver island that has one like it... im just worried that getting an import engine is going to be problems and more money down the road. like how do i know this motor wont smoke after 20k.. how hard/ expensive are parts? is there a north american version of this motor?

anyone with an idea or suggestion for the best bang for ur buck/ reliability

thanks all and im really excited to see where this goes

Author:  slipaway [ August 09 2008, 11:51 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: swap? rebuild?

Question: unless you really want a bigger/more powerful engine, why not just swap in a replacement K8? That's what I would do. If you go with a different engine, you'll have to deal with all the little issues that come with such a move. I know many people on this board are into that, but if you just want a good, solid performing engine, why not another K8? There are two on Ebay right is $400 (U.S), the other $550 + shipping. They both have a warranty as well. You could probably have it purchased, shipped and installed for a couple of grand.

Author:  Savin [ August 10 2008, 1:17 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: swap? rebuild?

Just because its smoking bad doesn't mean its no good. My 1.6 burns oil like crazy still. I help control the mosquito population. It still runs fine, idles fine, and aside from the tranny, drives fine.
Your problem could be as simple as worn/bad valve seals. If so, you could have a shop replace them for a few hundred dollars.
If its your piston rings, then just change the motor, its not worth replacing those. I believe you can check to see if those are good by checking compression. I honestly can't remember how to check...
Also, If you do swap out for a new motor, go with a JDM K8, it has 5 extra HP and the motors usually have around 50-80k (not sure if its miles or kilometers) on them. Since you aren't swapping out for a different motor, you might get charged less.

Author:  Nd4SpdSe [ August 10 2008, 12:12 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: swap? rebuild?

My 2 recommendations would be to either tear apart your K8 and rebuild it, or swap to a KLDE/KLZE. If you have an automatic, your SOL and stuck with a K8 unless you convert to manual.

First of swap, if you swap in a replacement K8, your taking as much of a risk of a bad motor no matter which one you go with. You want to know it's 100%, you'd have to do a full tear down, no matter which motor. If you put in a used one, you should get a good 100'000kms out of it, depending on how you take care of it of course.

There is a domestic version of the KLZE known as the KLDE. It's 165hp in the 626/Mx-6/Probe and 170hp in the Millenia.
Really, the only difference is that it's of higher compression, has more aggressive cams, better flowing heads (same as the Millenia DE). Technically the ZE also had weaker valvesprings and retainers, which is IMO a non-issue unless you want to rev it beyond 7000rpms, but you can swap in the DE one's if you want.

Those are parts that don't need to be serviced anyway, so getting an imported KLZE isn't an issue. Externally, the K8, KLDE and KLZE are literally identical. Pumps, pulleys, belts, pretty much anything is interchangable. ZE's are so widely available that parts, even internal ones, are not a problem sourcing parts. And comparing K8's to KLs, the K8 was only in the Mx-3, but you can get KL's in 626s, Mx-6s, Probes and Millenias, so there's no shortage of parts. Doing a compression test and a leakdown will give you a good idea on the heath of the motor. Even poping off the valve cover will tell you on how well it was maintained.

Reliability is not that much different sticking with any motor in it's stock configuration. Technically going with a KL it should be more reliable since you don't have to work it as hard to do the same things as in the K8. Same goes for milleage, it should actually be better with a good setup, unless your hard on the gas ;)

For cost, swapping a K8 to a KL. The only thing that's more is getting an upgraded clutch as a proper ECU. The rest is preventative maintenance that should be done while the motor is out regardless what motor you go with.

Author:  atomic froster [ August 10 2008, 6:56 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: swap? rebuild?

is it automatic lol thats funny.... sorry

so i think im going to go for the klze, so what do u guys think i should budget(shop install not me) for total completion, like ecu and cluth and everything?

Author:  RS_OBD'oh_2 [ August 10 2008, 7:51 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: swap? rebuild?

Dude... you live in Van... every jap import engine/ car to canada passes right by your house. See if you can get a front clip from a local import company. It'll be cheap. And probably under 30K kms. Search for local companies IE: (out of Calgary/Edmonton)

"Don't be stupid" - Paul Sr. OCC

Author:  atomic froster [ August 10 2008, 10:24 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: swap? rebuild?

naw man i live in victoria, so everything is harder/ more expensive

Author:  Daninski [ August 10 2008, 11:35 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: swap? rebuild?

I lived in Vic, windsurfed Cook Street. Listen KLZE is the way to go but you need to understand. You have to replace your clutch and toughen up your mounts. Your ECU is not chippable so look around for a 93-95 ECU then Email Probinator for a chip. I can help with that. Isn't that Wrecker still there just over the Malahat. They were cool to deal with. Finally, take pics of your engine and pay attention to the vaccum lines. Configure the ZE to look like your K8, you'll love the result. This swap isn't a big deal. We're here to help. Welcome

Author:  Mi|<E [ August 11 2008, 11:06 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: swap? rebuild?

The wrecker in Langford is called Wades, its just north on Millstream road on the
right hand side. They had alot of Mazdas last time I was there, 3 or 4 mx-3's, loads
of RX-7's and a small collection of Proteges - all newer too.

Machine shop link: ... 14196840aa

I dealt with them they have new sunnon machines and do very good work and take
cash under the table if you dont mind that route (cheaper).

Thier place is on the way to the airport, bout 15 mins past the Wallymart on Douglas.

Author:  atomic froster [ August 11 2008, 9:20 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: swap? rebuild?

hey guys thanks for all your input. I talked to the shop today Zen autosport here in greater victoria. i chose them because they do most of the lower island import work and they have the only dyno. they said they could piggyback my ecu with a apexi neo controller. has anyone done this? i love the idea. and they said the engine will come with clutch and tranny, so should i swap those in two?

Author:  atomic froster [ August 12 2008, 6:53 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: swap? rebuild?

so i took the car in today to get it looked at and they gave me a price... ze 1700, apexi neo tuner 500, trans 350(i need a new one third gear catches sometimes) clutch act z62 400, install 1500. with taxes about 5000. does this seem ok? oh this includes a long ram intake and all the dyno tuning it takes to set up four presets on the apexi

Author:  ElectricEnergy [ August 12 2008, 7:56 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: swap? rebuild?

Thats a huge amount of money, but if you REALLY don't want to do the work yourself it might be worth it. If you source the parts and install everything yourself, (minus the weird apexi neo tuner thing) you could do it for around $2000. Does their price include a replaced timing belt, waterpump, gaskets, etc? Because that should be done at the same time.

Author:  Nd4SpdSe [ August 12 2008, 10:39 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: swap? rebuild?

I wouldn't go with a piggy back. I believe there's issues with it where it actually is not used at WOT, and you can get a plug and play (no messy rewiring) KLZE KL31 or KL36 ECU for half that, if not less. There's no guarantee your ECU isn't chippable, it's typially only the early 92's that are affected. The only way to check would be to open it up, and if you can do some desoldering-soldering, the chip is only $40

Make sure you get a new timing belt and waterpump, you may regret it if you don't

Author:  boosted_bullet [ August 13 2008, 2:07 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: swap? rebuild?

i went with a junkard "de" (theres actually a bunch down here!)
for $500 got it and a 5spd! i replaced the gaskets and cleaned it....
it was more then worth it :D not a bad deal if u find it with low miles!

Author:  Daninski [ October 11 2008, 10:03 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: swap? rebuild?

Yes the pleasures of living in Vic, everything including labour is over priced. Usually an engine swap is around $900 and that includes swapping over the trans.

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